[THEMOS]

How do you spot a hustler

How do you spot him coming in the room. What signals does he give off. How do you spot him when he begins playing others or works you. What are the red flags that should run up your flag pole.
If you feel you are being hustled, should you quit or ask for a big spot to continue?

[Black-dot]

Signals or no signals, if a hustler is going to take someone's money, he has to win. If whoever is the hustler never wins, he doesn't get the cash. So some things to watch out for are who he plays and how he does against people of known ability. I just figure I'm not going to play anybody for serious money, period. I'm not into that. I'll play anybody for $10 race to 7. If I lose, and he's a hustler, he'll have to pull out a pretty good game, or he won't win consistently. And if he wants to lose three races to 7 for $10 each, that's fine with me. I'm not upping my bet, no way, no how. Especially the double or nothing ploy. We'll just keep it nice and clean. I've seen hustlers operate, and in each case, I'd say that the people who played them knew what they were doing, and if they lost money they were having fun. If not, they'd quit. I've played some of the very best players in Chicago, they give me a spot. I can tell a good stroke a mile away, and if that good stroke doesn't produce a reasonable number of pots, I know it's probably on purpose. One thing is to miss on purpose, another thing is to try to fool someone.

Although I've only been playing seriously for about a year, I know what a pro looks like. I can tell when he's shooting. Most of the shots you see on ESPN in the regular 9-ball tournament matches I know I can pot, the consistency is the deal. For a hustler to win, he has to pot the 9 ball, more than you do, or he doesn't take home the cash.

Today, people are so on the lookout for hustlers that I think it's pretty difficult to put a real hustle on someone. If somebody's ready to bet $200 on a game of 8 ball, as someone tried to get me to do a month or so ago after I beat the two best sticks in the house, I figure he's one hell of a player, and he must think he can beat me, and guess what, I bet he can. So, no game at $200 a pop, at least not for me.... Was he trying to hustle me? You betcha... did I fall for it? No way....

Someone who goes for the $200 game like that is either really good, or a good gambler. In a bar, with strangers all around, on their table, with their moon rocks for balls, will I take that bet?? Not a chance. Let's go to a real pool hall and settle down to some of the real deal on fast 9 foot tables with Centennial balls. Give me an hour with someone, or maybe a whole lot less, and I'll know a whole lot about them. Like if they will become a friend, or just a money game. If it's just for money, I'm not interested. I'm interested in the games, and possible friendship. I don't need the hassle of some guy shouting at me to drive my adrenaline up. Soon as I see that stuff, or incessant sharking, I'm on my way...

In my book, a hustle is something that happens to someone who's not on the ball...

So, if you don't know what to look for, sit around and watch the hustlers play for real money, watch their stroke, watch their touch, observe their moves, and after a while, you'll spot them a mile away...

Oh and by the way, every hustler is different...

[Pelican]

I know a couple of hustlers and I have been hustled. From what I have seen and from what they have told me here is what I look out for.

They never run racks. When they miss you are usually hooked. You will win about 1 game out of 4. They try to never win by more than 2 balls in 8 ball. They will leave you a shot in 9 ball when they know you won't have a follow up shot. They will talk about how good you shoot and how they just got 'lucky'. They will always offer to play you some other time to give you a chance to get your money back.

People that run rack after rack are not hustlers. They are very good shooters that just want to win. They could never make a living hustling because they have a desire to runout as many times a possible.

I can tell from blackdot's post that I am not nearly as good a shooter as he but I will occassionally play someone where I feel I am being hustled for small money and use it as a learning experience by watching their shots and moves.

Later, Pel

[Black-dot]

The first time I ever played at Chris's in Chicago, I was hustled, for table time, which amounted to about $20. It was not fun. I had been playing about a month and a half and this fellow came up and asked if I wanted to shoot around a bit. Sure, said I. So we shot around for about half an hour, then he proposed a match. I'd have to go to 4, and he would go to 14. Sure! Son of a gun ran rack after rack. Did I get an education that afternoon... I saw all sorts of things. It was cool, I couldn't believe how good this guy was. Once every 5 or 6 games he would miss, on purpose I'm sure, and leave me a clear open shot at the object ball, but it was always a very low percentage shot. Of course I didn't make it. And then he'd start his run again. That experience soured me, soured me big time.

So I learned my lesson. And I worked on improving. Got rid of that piece of junk stick I had bought for $15, and bought a Meucci, hence my handle on here.

Over time, I've gotten good enough to put a hustle on someone, but that doesn't interest me. I could have taken lots of people's money, but that's not my style. I'm not interested in money, I'm interested in the game, and improving, improving big time.

One thing is certain, the hustler will try to make you think you can beat him... And if you get really good, you just might do it, or he'll have to beat you.

When I play fellas just for fun I don't ever really give them my best game, heck, we're playing for fun. If we decide to play for a small amount of money, say a race to 5 for $2, I'll play tougher. My really best game doesn't come when playing for money, and the top of the tops for me is a race to 5 or 7 for $10. My best games come in tournaments... Or when playing someone who is an excellent player. Then I really put out...

When the hustler plays, he looks lucky... pretty often. I can make all sorts of shots look lucky, and there'll be an element of luck involved, but when I'm slamming balls around there's method to my madness, and if I start doing that, I'm going for the 9, even if it doesn't look that way. And when the 9 zips around the table, there are 6 great big pockets ready to eat it up. Does that make me a hustler?? Not at all... It's all fun...

What else to look out for? Someone who looks a bit like a loser... watch out for those guys... Although they come well dressed too...

Watch out...

[coolcuedude]

I watch for clues that will reveal him, how he chalks, when his stroke begins to improve when he needs to make a shot. You have to be alert, one guy was playing me left handed then switched to right and I was the only guy sitting there that spotted it.
The big clue is you are playing for low stakes and the guy is losing and he wants to double the bet. Nobody losing, playing a superior opponent, doubles a bet so he can then lose double. That is the classic hustle. Any time that occurs, 90% of the time, you are being worked and hunted.
Now and then a straight guy thinks if he ups the money it will throw you off you game which is true, to some it does. If your a 5$ player and he wants to play $100 a game, you could tighten up and choke. That is rare, so rather than take the chance today is your lucky day, assume your the mark and now being set up.

[Pelican]

One other thing, if he is losing at 9 ball and suggests that you play banks, and he is wearing a Kentucky Wildcats T shirt - you fixing to git skint. :-D

[pooh]

I know a couple of hustlers and I have been hustled. From what I have seen and from what they have told me here is what I look out for.

They never run racks. When they miss you are usually hooked. You will win about 1 game out of 4. They try to never win by more than 2 balls in 8 ball. They will leave you a shot in 9 ball when they know you won't have a follow up shot. They will talk about how good you shoot and how they just got 'lucky'. They will always offer to play you some other time to give you a chance to get your money back.


Later, Pel

__________

I have been wondering about this guy who justs insists on either playing me for nothing presumably to help me, but plays like you say Pel, saying he is not very good, when he misses, he leaves me without a good shot but not totally hooked, or showing me these weird shots.

I am in a different town to visit family, the poolhall is nice and the rates are low. Then I am about to leave and this guy comes in and I say I am leaving and he wants to show me a couple of things, like weird shots that B, apa sl7 players could not make, imo, at a high %, telling me what english to use, how hard etc. Then he misses them too but I can tell he has the skills to do it, but says so and so made it at vegas or something.I keep telling him I am not at that skill level, but he keeps putting these shots in front of me that are impossible for me to make. GRR

Now, after two days of this, he says that next time he comes, he will give me these really hard shots that will make me scratch ten times before I leave the pool hall. He knows I do not gamble, but I honestly wonder if he is trying to fire me up until I will do something for money.

I knew I was getting mad, when he, supposedly trying to help me sets up a bunch of banks. I never make banks, i am horrible at them, but by that time was feeling hot. He tells me he sees the line, and I said "I do not, I just get down and shoot the damn ball' and started firing them in. They were not hard ones, just basic ones, but for me to start firing in banks, I knew I was mad.

When I got home today,after two days of this, I was so livid, I was seriously thinking of plopping money on the table, but my way.

Like setting up a trickshot that requires him to kick in four balls going 7 rails, plopping ten down and saying here is 10 you cannot do it in 3 snaps, then the same thing with fast larry's 12 rail bank.

And on these impossible shots he claims to want to show me to get me to scratch, tell him do it 9 out of 10, show me you can do it, or I refuse to try it once. If he balks at that, I will simply tell him that if he cannot do it 8 times out of ten, then he does not own the shot.

It is so infuriating. I went there to practice because the tables are similar in tightness of pockets to the ones we use in league, which I have to compete on Tuesday, when I get back home. Gosh, I am thinking, maybe I am better than I thought,because I was shooting well above my handicap, but at the same time, way smarter than this idiot, because no way can he trick me into believing I can beat him, his skills are all too obvious.

This guy is getting on my last nerve. :-x

[FASTLARRY]

Ah so grasshopper, you have this one little word you can use, it is so easy to do, now let's practice, pucker up, now repeat after me, No.....

No thanks, I am in a practice session working on things, I can't stop or talk now but thanks for dropping by and nice to see you, now turn away and continue to play, if he talks, ignore him. Do not answer him.

He wants to teach you some new shots:

No.... sorry, I have an instructor, his name is Randy G and I only follow his teachings and his method is I cannot listen to any one else or it will confuse what I am learning. I would love to try it, but no thanks, sorry, can't talk now, must go back to my practice session. Do not answer any more questions or respond to any other conversation, ignore person.

Some will consider this as being rude. You would have been better off in the beginning to have been rude and saved all of this anger and frustration that is now building in you. You are going to have to be rude now, so what's the difference in being rude now, on 3rd base, than just shutting the guy off on first base.

Never ever let any body in a room come up and begin giving you advice on your game or free lessons. If they are free, they how good do you think they are. If they were any good, he would charge $50 an hour like me or Randy does. Just don't let it even get started, shut it down and off Immediately, or they you have the pest from hell you now can't get rid of nicely.

Is he setting you up, could be, but I doubt that. Every room has some league 5 or 6 wanna be teacher who is trying to show to the world all of his vast amassed knowledge. Every room has one.

If you go into a new room to hang out and play and try to be everyones pal and make every one there happy all you are going to do is make your self unhappy. You have to pick and choose who are your new friends and who you talk to or spend time with.

I flat shut people off saying I don't want to be rude or offend you but I am practiing now and need my total concentration and therefore can't continue to talk to you. I'll be done in a couple of hours, when I come over to the bar for a break, or any time you see me at the bar drinking, come over and we can chat about any thing you want to.
If I don't do this in rooms where I teach, then I can't get any thing done because people are bugging me all the time for this and that. It would get so bad I would go to other places to practice where no body would know me and I could get something done.

In the 3 rooms where I now teach and two of them I am house pro in, I can go into my private room which has two gold crowns and shut the door, problem solved.
The other room I go into the far corner and everyone there knows when I am on that table, they leave me alone, they are all trained not to bother me.

The 3rd room is an action place so I mostly go there during the day or afternoon when it's not busy and when it fills up like a cattle car I leave.

I control my life, and the pool situation around me, I do not let it bug me or I find a new place to play.
Life is too short to be bugged when you go out to have fun and play pool.

If you do not contol them, they will contol you.

:-) :-D :-o :-o :-P

[Black-dot]

I have a friend in Chicago who is a great pool player, has won championships in 8 ball, writes a column for a major pool magazine, a really sharp guy.

There is another pool player, who my friend says is a great player, who has this thing about aiming. It seems he knows all the physics of shooting and so on, and is a great shot, too, by the way, which is what one would expect to find in a great player.

Well, it turns out that this fellow likes to ask my friend where he aims when shooting. We're not talking about simple shot, but more difficult ones. And no matter what my friend tells him about how he aims, the other fellow "proves" to him that his method won't work. It has such a terrible effect on my friend that it messes his game up, big time. He can't seem to get it off his mind. This has been going on for quite some time, apparently. So much so that the last time I spoke with my friend he told me he told the other guy not to talk to him about it ever again, and said that if he (my friend) were to get ready for a big money game with someone, the first thing he'd do is send the other fellow over to befriend him and talk to him about aiming... :-P

Says I to my friend, forget whatever he told you, he's messing with your mind. You know how to make the shot, you've shot it hundreds of times, and it pots every time. What difference does it make where you aim? No difference at all. So just forget about it. My friend says he's going to to just that... Just as Fast Larry says to do up above, in as many words...

Cheers!

[Pelican]

Got to go with Larry on this. When I am seriously doing drills or just practice I don't even so much as want someone watching much less talking.

Later, Pel

[ Edited by Pelican on 2004/9/24 18:54 ]

[pooh]

This dude was catching me right as I was packing up ready to leave. I found out later, he is just a bum, one of those who gets in action and loses and never has anything, always broke. Cannot even afford table time, that I could tell. So, based on what I saw,two things were happening. He was getting on my table since he cannot afford to pay for his own time and I do think that he would have played me for money,even 5 or ten to get a few easy bucks.

Pathetic.

Laura

[FASTLARRY]

' date='Sep 25 2004, 01:16 AM said:

This dude was catching me right as I was packing up ready to leave. I found out later, he is just a bum, one of those who gets in action and loses and never has anything, always broke. Cannot even afford table time, that I could tell. So, based on what I saw,two things were happening. He was getting on my table since he cannot afford to pay for his own time and I do think that he would have played me for money,even 5 or ten to get a few easy bucks.

Pathetic.

Laura

They all give off signals, you need to know what they are so you catch them, before he catches you.

[Terminator]

FASTLARRY, on Dec 28 2007, 02:01 AM, said:

They all give off signals, you need to know what they are so you catch them, before he catches you.

Watch their eyes, they dart around a lot, shifty, always checking every one out, like a cat on the hunt, looking for its next meal.

[The_Woim]

I don't mind so much a friendly race to 7 to $10. That's just fun.

The Woim doubts the existence of The Hustler. A stranger coming up to you and wanting to play, then loses some and wants to up the ante? Nah, I've certainly never seen it happen.

The big money match is something different. That's a fair line up. Like these action challenges and the latest IPT match between Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland.

The Woim would even be willing to play in such a match if the odds were winner $12,500, loser $4,500. I'd travel to Kentucky or Atlantic City for a match like that. The Woim vs. anyone else! Where else are you going to find a $4,500 payday for a couple hours of fun pool.

Yours Truly,
The Woim

[coolcuedude]

The_Woim, on Dec 29 2007, 10:49 PM, said:

I don't mind so much a friendly race to 7 to $10. That's just fun.

The Woim doubts the existence of The Hustler. A stranger coming up to you and wanting to play, then loses some and wants to up the ante? Nah, I've certainly never seen it happen.

The big money match is something different. That's a fair line up. Like these action challenges and the latest IPT match between Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland.

The Woim would even be willing to play in such a match if the odds were winner $12,500, loser $4,500. I'd travel to Kentucky or Atlantic City for a match like that. The Woim vs. anyone else! Where else are you going to find a $4,500 payday for a couple hours of fun pool.

Yours Truly,
The Woim

May I suggest you watch the Hustler movie to see what it was like in the 50's, and the color of money in the 80's. Are there hustlers working pool halls, you bet, they will never go away. They are a part of the game, just like there are hustlers working every golf course as well. Guys like to gamble, hustlers live off these people.

[Pelican]

I used to be a book. I learned that some folks can't stand to be ahead. This is the people that hustlers look for.