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Best Low Deflection Shaft?


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#1 cmpunk

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 04:13 PM

Is this all hype or is there a true low deflection shaft out there?? I am reading Preaditor & OB1 & Tiger Etc... Anyone know the truth?? Thanks!!

#2 CocoboloCowboy

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 04:57 PM

What Super Shaft did Wille H., or Wille M. play with.......NONE. SAVE your money!!!!
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces" - Quote from: A Game of Pool, The Twilight Zone 1961 Television Show.

#3 FASTLARRY

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 07:16 PM

[quote name='CocoboloCowboy' date='Jul 18 2010, 05:57 PM' post='32290']
What Super Shaft did Wille H., or Wille M. play with.......NONE. SAVE your money!!!!


Ah so Grasshopper, U begin to figure this out, its all hype and bull shit, to con you into spending $275 on a shaft that should not cost over $100.
My techie thingie is more anvanced than yo techiie woopie.

What did Willie play with, a Balabushka, what do I use, same thing, same taper, same kind of wood, and thats what I now sell, the juice shaft, which out plays every one you listed. This I guarantee you, or you get your money back.

End of story. Back to my Glenlevit.

"Fast Larry" Guninger
The Power Source Traveling Pool School. To see my web page come alive click here: www.fastlarrypool.comicon_smile.gificon_biggrin.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_razz.gif


#4 huebler

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:10 AM

Ah so Grasshopper, U begin to figure this out, its all hype and bull ****, to con you into spending $275 on a shaft that should not cost over $100.
My techie thingie is more anvanced than yo techiie woopie.

What did Willie play with, a Balabushka, what do I use, same thing, same taper, same kind of wood, and thats what I now sell, the juice shaft, which out plays every one you listed. This I guarantee you, or you get your money back.

End of story. Back to my Glenlevit.


As I have posted many times, I love my juiced shaft. So much, I bought a second months later. The 11.5mm tip, the taper, the quality of the solid wood used in the Balabushka shaft, the ferrule all contribute to the great result without gimicky shaft construction techniques.

FL might usually tell you much of what I am about to say, but if he is focused on the Glenlevit, he just gave you the short answer. I learned a fair amount of the following by reading and talking to FL, and from other sources too. So don't look at this as a conflict to FL, just more details behind the answer.

The concept of deflection definitely exists and can definitely be mitigated through design of the shaft. It all comes down to mass at the tip (not talking about balance point here, there was a great thread a few weeks ago about tip heavy or butt heavy cues). This is about the weight in the last several inches of the shaft at the tip. The more weight in the tip, the more force that presses against the CB when hit off center, the more squirt of the cue ball as it moves from its stationary position. Make the tip area lighter by making the diameter small, removing material from the end of the shaft (drilling out some wood at the tip), using lighter ferrule materials, or whatever, you get less deflection. This is part of the story.

The other part of the story is the spine of the cue, or how much it flexes side to side. The natural wood grain is naturally stiffer in one direction than any other. The amount of flex in the shaft will also slightly affect deflection. The more flex, the lower the deflection. The various methods of making shafts in a laminated or joined fashion is all about making the shaft as consistent as possible in any orientation so you get consistent deflection. Consistency leads to the reason why the greats where great without all this new shaft technology....

The greats had learned to adjust for deflection, however much, their cue created. They factored it in. Yes, the Balabushka shaft and taper at 11 or 12 mm might have been less than a different cue, but what ever the amount of deflection created, they knew how to account for it in their aim point. Less is better because you have less to account for, but it is always there and once you know how to account for it, you can apply the english and shoot accurately.

For me, the various brands that join many pieces of wood to make a shaft are charging a lot for a technology that is better in marketing messages than it is in real life. It may be more consistent than solid wood, but it is also going to handle energy flowing through it very differently. The glues used are not the same as the way wood fibers are joined naturally. Most wood glues are stronger than the natural wood fibers. What does eight separate pieces of wood with eight glue lines feel like compared to a solid piece of wood? A well selected piece of sold wood with straight grain may not be as perfect in terms of the grain pattern as eight slices glued to all have straight grain, but that solid piece of wood has a tonal resonance created in nature that a manufactured wood product just does not have. It has a different kind of consistency; one that comes from natural growth without the glue lines. For me, a well selected solid piece of wood is always preferred. But that is my opinion. Many people like the manufactured wood shaft.

The manufactured shaft is about the consistency of the flex. The changes at the tip, whether solid wood or manufactured wood are about deflection (mass) So the predator dilling out some of the shaft at the tip reduces mass and would do the same on solid wood. The OB1 using a wood ferrule instead of plastic is about mass at the tip. Smaller diameter tips reduce mass. Neither of these have anything to do with the way the shaft was made form one or many pieces of wood.

If you want low deflection and natural quality, get a juiced shaft from FL. If you want engineered consistency of spine and low deflection at a high price and trading off the natural wood qualities in the process, go buy one of the many highly engineered products. Either will serve you well. Or you could just put in hundreds of hours of practice with any reasonable cue, let your brain learn to adjust for the deflection, and play better than most who spend the money on the technology and did not put in the time to learn how to use it.

#5 cmpunk

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:42 AM

Great info! Thanks!

#6 FASTLARRY

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:16 PM

Yo Dan, dis is what I tink I said, or sometin like dat? I dunno? Some times I do, sometimes I dont, and sometimes I aint got no clue no mo.

Seriously though, at least 6 players who had Z shafts, bought the juice shaft, and reported back to me it plays even with, or some said better. It astounded them. Which proves you can do it with a solid piece of wood, for half the price. But players want the hot new high techie thingie and just wont belive I could do this the old school way. I outplay the New Lucasi hybrid Leh-30, and I did extensive testing between the two, and the 30 does play well.

I would probably have more success if I began charging $50 more than the Z shaft. Instead of virtually giving it away.

Outstanding post, spot on. My compliments, thanks. I would kill to have 25 or 50 like you posting every day. So few, are finding me, and finding the truths.

"Fast Larry" Guninger
The Power Source Traveling Pool School. To see my web page come alive click here: www.fastlarrypool.comicon_smile.gificon_biggrin.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_razz.gif


#7 headmuses

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:26 PM

I have sold all of my Predator 314, and Z shafts, and also sold my OB-1 shaft. I now only use the two solid wood stock original shafts that came with my Dan Dishaw hand made cue. Love it, wont go back to these multi-layered construction shafts. End of story.


FL SAY, right, I have about 12 of the 314's laying around I have not used since they first came out, they gave all of them to me. They play fine, I always knew though, they came up short. The ferrule is too weak for me, I blew two of them up.

#8 CocoboloCowboy

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:30 PM

I have sold all of my Predator 314, and Z shafts, and also sold my OB-1 shaft. I now only use the two solid wood stock original shafts that came with my Dan Dishaw hand made cue. Love it, wont go back to these multi-layered construction shafts. End of story.


You got over the BULLCHIT, AND HYPE OF THE SUPER SHAFTS!
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces" - Quote from: A Game of Pool, The Twilight Zone 1961 Television Show.

#9 headmuses

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:33 PM

You got over the BULLCHIT, AND HYPE OF THE SUPER SHAFTS!



Yup Coco...love my Dishaw...love solid wood shafts and the feel of the hit. No more mushy feedback, just solid wood hit.
:biggrin:


FL SAY, YES, when I was playing with the Meucci PP-4 around 2000, I was using the red dot solid piece of Canadian hard rock maple, damn fine shaft, and when he came out with that layered high tech pos black dot, it was the worst thing, I ever saw. Too stiff, a total disaster. That shaft, killed that company off.
Right after that, I went back to the Balbushka, and modified it, to play, like my old PP-4 red dot, and not only did I achieve that, I got it out performing it. You get a lot of natural English, without having to work at it, which means you apply less, and can hit more towards the center, which means, less deflection.

#10 FASTLARRY

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 10:20 PM

Here is an actual ebay customer and what he said: We are not kidding about the juice shaft, playing with or better than anything out there. If that is not true, then why would I be using it on the world tour. If there was something better out there, I would be using it. Back to sippin on my Glenlevit 21 yr old neat. I am praying it will kill me off, I am praying, it will take a long time to do it. At least, I go out, smilin and happy. Fast Larry.

Dear flepool2003,


The stick, LGB-23 I just bought, does look really nice. I think it plays pretty well too. I am surprised at how comparable the juiced cue is to my viking with the predator Z2. It really gets nice action and the 11.5 tip has a very smooth stroke especially with the anti-vibration damper. Always a pleasure doing business doing business with you, and I'll stay in touch. Thanks, Brandon Harmon

"Fast Larry" Guninger
The Power Source Traveling Pool School. To see my web page come alive click here: www.fastlarrypool.comicon_smile.gificon_biggrin.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_razz.gif


#11 headmuses

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 10:39 PM

Yummy...Glenlivet 21 yr old...now thats going out in style my main man. Who dah man FL? You dah man. save me a taste of that fine whiskey. :biggrin:

#12 FASTLARRY

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:50 AM

[quote name='headmuses' date='Jul 20 2010, 11:39 PM' post='32344']
Yummy...Glenlivet 21 yr old...now thats going out in style my main man. Who dah man FL? You dah man. save me a taste of that fine whiskey. ;)


I say every night, this shit is gonna kill me, and I then whisper, death, where is thy sting. I only pour a small jigger neat, and take very small sips over about an hour, I drink very little single malt, neat. Its usually 4 jiggers with ice and water of Johnnie walker beginning at 5Pm, and up to 11pm, or 4 drinks from 5 to 11, I measure it out in a flask, my ration for the evening, then my final reward, the final jolt of the Glenlevit neat, so the level of me drinkin, it greatly over rated. I only drink half now, what I used to when I was a traveling sales mgr. I drink slowly and never even get drunk. I do it to relax, and because I like it. And if you lived with Yo Sarah yappin in yo ear constantly, you would drink too. You would have to drink. I said last night, Yo Sarah, ya drove me to hard drink, and every day when I go to bed, I thank you for it.

Let me bottom line this for you. Every day, your living, your actually slowly dying. Nobody knows, how many ticks you have left, or when you will go. Therefore go out, being happy. Be happy today, for tamale, may never come. Most of you have not really thought this one out, you are giving up everything, good times, good food, good booze, nice broads, just to live another 5 or 10 years. And what will that extra 5 years be like you might buy, you will be pissing and shittin in yo diper in your nursing home where you are brain dead. I dont wanna make 93 like me mom did, I saw, what that is like. Pass me a hot dog and a beer. I have told the angels, they can come get my ass, right now, I am good to go on todays bus to heaven. I have had enough of this fuckin rock, this place now sucks royal dick.

"Fast Larry" Guninger
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#13 FASTLARRY

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 05:48 PM

All you have to do, is play with this juice shaft, once, and that's it. End of story.

"Fast Larry" Guninger
The Power Source Traveling Pool School. To see my web page come alive click here: www.fastlarrypool.comicon_smile.gificon_biggrin.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_razz.gif





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