[elvman]

Hey Fast!

Long time no see my man. I'm finally getting a house here in Denver, and have a room nice enough for a table, but probably only a 7' one unfortunately. The room measures 24x13....so I'm not sure if it could handle anything bigger, with me being tall and everything.

I'm also concerned about lighting. There are no overhead lights so one will need to be put in. I assume I should do the lighting prior to having the table installed?

Also....give me some general thoughts on playing on a 7 footer.

Hope all is well,

Elvis

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[FASTLARRY]

elvman, on Aug 4 2009, 08:35 PM, said:

Hey Fast!

Long time no see my man. I'm finally getting a house here in Denver, and have a room nice enough for a table, but probably only a 7' one unfortunately. The room measures 24x13....so I'm not sure if it could handle anything bigger, with me being tall and everything.

I'm also concerned about lighting. There are no overhead lights so one will need to be put in. I assume I should do the lighting prior to having the table installed?

Also....give me some general thoughts on playing on a 7 footer.

Hope all is well,

Elvis

Yo E, doing a little TCOB?

These bozos think you croaked, when I tell them we hang out together, they think I am nuts. Makes me wanna play one of yo tunes.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=F9Dk9Q2huGI


Call me, 770-381-6609 I can ship you in some of the standard 3 shade lights you see around. Plain or fancy, I have them all.

Or, go to Lowes and use office type lights. But I guess, you walking into Lowes, could cause a riot.

We need to do another Denver trip, at your place, get some guys to go in with you again, to spread the cost out. I need to get back to Demetris. I gained 10 friggen pounds in that joint.

By the way, that heavy set Latino guy I had a lesson with, and he liked it so he brought in his girl friend for me to teach. Nice looking chick. I taught the guy my aiming system and corrected his. How is he doing, is he beating any one around town now. I can't remember his name, sorry, but he could play.

[FASTLARRY]

LIGHTING The people of the dark caves

4 pages, CR, Fast Larry Guninger, all rights reserved, published in the American Cueist 4-2000, Rev 2-11-07, 4-19-08, and in numerous internet publications since then.

To set up a proper game room to have the maximum enjoyment of the game you need a good pool table that is level, has lively cushions and simonis cloth. You need a good cue and a set of Aramith or Diamond Jubilee pro balls which can be found on www.fastlarrypool.com. Most do these things but it seems every one blows the lighting. For the lighting to be correct you can not see any shadows along the rails.

Most opt for the simple green light 3 shades that hang over the table. 3 is OK for a home rec 8’ table but if you have a 9’ use a 4 light fixture. My attitude is you can not have too much light. Check your bulbs and if you have 60 watt, increase to 100 watt. Most don’t know that fluorescent bulbs come in high wattages and a 40 watt is the same as 200 incandescent so go up on your tube as well. You may have to find a specialty lighting store as the Wal-Mart’s only handle the popular smaller sizes.
You should run not one fixture down the middle but two side by side each one off diamonds 6 & 8.

These cheap 3 light green shades fixtures also wear out fast from the constant changing of the bulbs in and out. Soon the sockets get loose and begin to shock people changing bulbs and they become a serious risk.

Golf and Tennis are played in full light. To hit a ball accurately you have to be able to see. When the light begins to fade, they quit playing unless in Tennis they turn on the lights over the court.

The older you get the more your eye sight fades. Any one over 40 is having a vision problem and the more vital it becomes for them to have proper lighting on their home table. If you have a green cloth then put the 6 ball down on the far end and sees if you can see its outer edge. If the end has shadows, you can’t. If you change to a lighter color like the new simonies electric blue all the balls show up better including the green ball. Never use the dark colors on the cloth and black, burgundy, the dark blue’s or blue greens and red are the worst. They balls are hard to see and they begin to show white marks from down shots. The lighter colors do not show these marks near as much.

In the 1850’s they were using candles and then gas lights. They put mirrors above the jets to reflect the light down. They advertised no shadows on our tables and that is your object to accomplish. Just add more light.

In the 40’s they would put 3 or 4 lights down each side of the table, two fixtures parallel with each other. There were always rooms that went cheap and even the great Kling and Allen’s I came up in only had 3 lights over their 5x10’s which was totally inadequate.

Ike gets elected and the business men quit playing pool and take up golf instead. The pigeons that the hustlers feasted on are now long gone. Starving they can no longer make a living in pool halls as the chumps and sausages are too hip to get clipped. People are no longer riding street cars downtown to shop or to play pool. Every one buys a car for the first time, a TV and a house in the suburbs. Downtowns die along with all the famous big time rooms such as Klings.

NYC which has 4000 rooms at one point had only one room open for 8,000,000 people. That was the state of the game when I came of age and began serious play and gambling. In 1957 the BCA closed its door, threw all of its records into the dumpster and did not come back to run another event until 1966. Pool had died and all that was left were a few dumps and drunks trying to hustle a game. Degenerates who could not find or be hired for a real job.

What saved the game was the 1961 movie the Hustler which brought players back with a renewed interest to play once more. To accommodate them new smaller rooms opened out into the burbs where their clients now lived. The tables were no longer 5x10’s, they vanished like the dinos and even 9’s became rare. 8’s were in and the smaller rooms which had them packed in where they were too close together. You were bumping into each other a lot. The lighting got cheaper, smaller and darker.

Bars began to put in the even smaller 7’ tables from hell with even worse lighting. Now we were really playing in the dark. Soon every bar had one and the businessmen took off work and dropped in a 5:30pm to have a drink and Jake Da Snake is waiting for him saying Hey mister, wanna play some $5 Nine ball?

As the pigeons moved to a new place the hustlers just followed them. Some of these places are so dark you need a flashlight just to find the can. You don’t need any light just to drink and get drunk. All you need to be able to do is not fall out of your chair.

At several convention centers I have set up tables for trick shot events I was running. Hanging fixtures from these very high ceilings can cost $800 a pop so I passed and just used the existing overhead lighting. The filming was great and nobody complained. The light way up high was evenly spread and no shadows were on the tables.

That was when I began to realize, bingo, the light bulb comes on, Hello McFly, knock knock, there is no need to every hang a light fixture low over a table. Most are hung too low and you can even bump your head into them. Most are incandescent so the bulbs are hot and produce too much heat which is a problem in the summer. The light spots, it does not spread and the bulbs burn out a lot which causes you to be changing them which then becomes a problem as these fixtures are made cheap and the metal housing the bulb screws into will begin to come apart and you can get shocked or hurt. That is very common in pool halls with older fixtures.

You can not hang these high or the glare from the bulbs will blind you which are why I wear a golf visor. My advice is just do not use these and install fluorescent fixtures in the ceiling, like in an office. Can you imagine an office in the dark, where every desk has a bud light fixture hung low over it and you stumble around in the dark grouping from desk to desk?

A pool hall should be well lit, like an office with the lights recessed into the ceiling where you can turn sections on or off when people go on time. Fluorescent has 4 to 1 the light spread over incandescent. They do not burn out from frequent turn on and off. They are cheaper to operate and do not generate heat. On my 9’ table I went to Home Depot and bought three 4x4’ light fixtures which have a light shield which flips down for lamp change. I installed toggle bolts in the ceiling and hung them on 2” chains so they are virtually hugging the ceiling. When I need to relamp I just take my shoes off, climb up a short ladder and walk on the slate to get the fixture open.
I would suggest using cool white. You might want to experiment with other bulbs until you find the one that lights your room best.
Here are the PBT Pro tour lighting specifications from their 1993 rulebook: Suggested type: 4-8' fluorescent tubes, spaced evenly over the
50x100" playing surface using diffusing grid to evenly disperse
light and eliminate shadows.
Distance: Should be located 80" from floor.
Incandescent equivalent lighting is acceptable."
The mistake people make is hanging these length ways. No, turn them side ways so the ends of the bulbs are facing the long rails. I hung my 3 fixtures, each having 4 bulbs and 4’ wide evenly spaced inside the short rails and I have enough light to do surgery on my table like its an OR room. The stupid 3 shade green lights cost $200 and leave shadows. My 3 fixtures cost $32 each and I was out for under a C note.
So if you bought one of these turkeys, sell it, store it and get proper lighting up.
The 3 light turkey gives 180 watts as most have 60 watt bulbs, even if you put in 100 watt you have 300. I now have 2400 watts over my table and 7 times the light and 4 times the better light spread. It’s no contest which is the better system.

An 8’ table should have two of these side ways and the 9’ three. I see bars and some pool halls that have the beer light over their bar box. Why, they get it free and look under there and see the tiny bulb. They need to double its size and hang two of these size ways and not length ways. I see a single one of these on an 8’ table. They would need three of them side ways. The problems with them is they have no glare shield and when you get them higher you are looking into the glare of the lights so these bad boys gotta go. The wattage in the bulbs in these should also be doubled.

The original Diamond lights were huge and covered the entire table and rails. They have made them a tad smaller but they still have a major problem for me. Try and hit any Masse shot along any rail and you can’t because they are hung too low and your cue butt hits the fixture. The solution is to hang them higher so a masse shot clears the fixture.

The new Brunswick light is better because it is smaller and just covers the inside of the table and does not block a masse shot. These fixtures are beautiful and work well but be prepared to pay $600 up. Because they are so expensive some pool halls and handy men at home just build their own.

The latest trend for pool is not good as pool halls are trying to create a bar atmosphere for young people which is pushing booze on them as pool as the side line. It is so dark in some of these places to chalk your cue you can’t see to do that 2’ back from the table. You have to lean over the rail to see under the fixture. Then you have the juke box blaring rap crap at a DB level equal to the space shuttle launch and you cant think, you can’t friggen see and I call this bozo pool.

BILLIARD SUPER STORE, lowest prices on pool tables, cues & accessories. We will meet or beat any price on the net. You want it, we have it or we will get it.
www.billiards-superstore.com

TALK POOL, 900 members, polite people, no flame wars or bozos. Contests
Have recently given away free pool tables, cues and Seven thousand dollars of
Pool cues, racks, balls and DVD’s. It’s now the 4th largest site in the USA. These
Two sites, pool chat and FL POOL generate 10,000 hits a week from 37 countries.
www.poolchat.net

POOL SCHOOL. Book a lesson from a touring pro and master level instructor. Bring in a trick shot show by a World Artistic champion. See world class trick shots steam live. Just click the trick shot show tab.
Natural pool, simple techniques, dramatic results. Video taped lesson. You get what you come for or the lesson is free.
THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL "Fast Larry" Guninger. POOL LESSONS FROM A MASTER LEVEL INSTRUCTOR AND WORLD CHAMPION. 770-381-6609, fax 770-381-1916 web site www.fastlarrypool.com

THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. The total learning center. Explore the Encyclopedia section where there are 226 instruction articles and it’s all free access. Enough pool knowledge to fill 4 full books. Simply click the link, hit enter, hit the tab at the far left which says Encyclopedia, then register free and read and advance your game. Virtually every question you can have is answered there.
www.fastlarrypool.com

TRICK SHOT SHOW. Bring Fast Larry in to perform his mind boggling 100 shots. See him perform the world famous legends show. See the greatest trick shots made that the greatest players performed. Very affordable rates. See the former world champion and Ripley’s believe it or not legend blow your socks off.
Email fastlarry @bellsouth.net fast larry at bell south dot net run those two together. Also use fastlarry @gmail.com
May God bless and peace be with you. May there now be peace between
us. If you are a real pool player, then fast truly loves you. May
the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall.
VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. "Fastus Maximus. " Latin for
"I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did
do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don't believe it,
C'est La Vie. " Shoot straight, innovate, never give up, just run
out on the other guy then there is no way for you to lose.
THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL GOES ON THE ROAD every year and may be coming to your home town. Check in with us to see if we can save you a trip to Atlanta. You can pick up the current schedule at www.poolchat.net under the forum ask fast larry. Larry’s tour schedule is also posted at www.fastlarrypool.com

[FASTLARRY]

On a big table we draw the most, on a bar box its reversed, we rarely draw, but follow on most shots. So this is where you put your work into, the follow now.

FOLLOW How to make a stroke with power. The 4 strokes of pool.

4-15-04, REV 1-28-05, 9-24-07, 11-14-08 2 pages, CR, Fast Larry Guninger all rights reserved. Published in DC, bpn, czm, upp, ppt, flp, btt.

An internet questions: Larry, my man. Give us a dissertation on the proper application of 'follow'. For some reason, and I figure it's me, quite often when I use follow I don't seems to get the cue ball to travel as much as I want. How bout a little advice from your stack of expertise.
Thanks, Pel
I shoot pool like I make love, I'm not very good but sure have a lot of fun trying.

FL RESPONDS: You have two main stroke methods and 4 basic strokes.

(One) Taught by the BCA instructors, shoots into the middle or top of the ball and allows the tip to dip down and end up impacting into the cloth. The elbow does not drop, in fact, they tell you to never drop the elbow, that this is bad. This method I am so violently opposed to caused me to resign from the BCA teacher’s school of which I graduated from because I refused to teach a flawed system I knew was wrong. The feature of this method is not to drop the elbow. Hitting down on the cue ball will always put some drag on the cue ball, slowing its natural roll. Hit that way very hard and you will jump the cue ball. This is how I teach the draw, hitting down on the cue ball. The facts are every pro drops their elbow on power shots. They push this because they have a lot of beginner instructors who don’t have advanced techniques and could not teach them. This method is also best for the beginner.


The BCA method is a hit and drop down through the ball which has to put back spin on the cue ball. I teach my students to become pure ball rollers, they teach theirs to become ball skidders. This is how I hit a drag shot. In golf the putt is taught to hit up over and through the ball. I teach the same method in pool. Tapes of Mosconi and Greenleaf and Hoppe reveal their cues actually rising up through the ball as I teach as a putt in golf is performed. A running ball with pure top spin runs purest. A chopped ball will slide off to the side and tail off at the end.

(Two, drop the elbow, level through the shot)

If I am wrong about this, then Golf is wrong. I am dead right and these teachers are dead wrong the way they are teaching. That is the center of the attack on me, I told them, they were teaching wrong and they respond to degrade me so you will not believe this. Both methods should be taught and learned at the same time, fixed pin, and drop the elbow.

When you go back and examine all of the films of exactly how Mosconi, Greenleaf, Hoppe, Caras, Crane, all of the greats, none of them played this way. Most of the modern champions do this as well.
I teach how these greats played and I played or observed all of them as I go back to being in play during WWII, so I know. You can acquire over 5 hours of actual footage from me seeing all of these greats playing in the 20’s to the 60’s on my 3 antique billiards DVD’s I sell and give away on www.poolchat.net I tell people, don’t argue with me on this, argue with Hoppe, Mosconi and Greenleaf because you are saying they were wrong. So who are you going to believe, some teacher in Wisconsin who has never been on tour, never won any events and never beaten any body of merit? Or do you believe your eyes when you see the entire hall of fame doing my methods. Somebody is dead ass wrong here, and it aint me?

The other thing I do not agree with is you see all these young players with these 12" long bridges stroking and putting the cue tip every time on the bottom of the ball and then hitting above that point. I teach a short bridge, a long follow through and the point you aim to hit on the CB is the point the cue tip comes up to each time.

(Third stroke, the stop ball)

You are slightly jacked up, hitting the cue ball about l/2 tip below center with a jab poke stroke with no follow through. This shot must be perfected so the CB stops in place.

I want my student to hit any follow above the equator with a perfectly level cue so the cue ball does not jump and a perfect follow through so the cue shaft stays on that same line parallel to the table bed and never drops even if the follow through is 2' long. This requires a drop of the elbow, but all the top pros do that any way. Drop and just shove the cue shaft down the line. This is a UN natural act and is an acquired manipulation of the cue stroke. To add power just follow through twice as far as you are now doing. I can follow through to the joint and to do that just keep going and don’t stop. To add big time power cock the wrist back and flick it through the shot. Remember you must stay perfect level to the table bed or the cue ball will jump and then lose its spin and power.
Trying to bring the cue back level with the bed and go forward level with the bed is UN natural. Going back allow the butt of the cue to rise up a little and on the down swing drop the elbow and just before impact it levels and you drive through the ball level with the bed of the table and then come up a little. I call this a wave action. Nick Varner does it beautiful. It is kind of like pumping water out of a well, pull up, push down, and shove forward.

On most follows using side English normally one tip up and one tip to the side works best but that will vary from shot to shot. You will see me, Mosconi, Greenleaf, Hoppe and many more greats making a follow through keeping the shaft parallel to the table bed at and after impact and then see the tip actually rise up another inch imparting pure over spin roll on the ball. This is an advanced stroke and it is not for beginners. The better player needs two distinct strokes and methods. I use the BCA fixed pin shot, degrade into the cloth on some shots, but when I need to grip it and rip it I use the wave drop the elbow stroke.

Power in the follow comes from the drop of the elbow; the cock and flick of the wrist into the ball and a long follow through. How far you go depends on the shot and the force you need to apply. For me it can be full foot, sometimes almost 2 feet.

(4th STROKE)
Not all shots are power grip it and rip it. In fact most are only sending the cue ball a foot or two. Many of these I may have no follow through. I hit a lot of what I call funky shots. I group all of these into the 4th category but there may be 4 or 5 distinct strokes here. Some have no follow through. Little nips, dinks, bunts, jabs, pokes, drags which shuts down, slides and controls the cue ball. Some have a follow through of an inch or two. When you chop down on the cue ball, it sends it in a different angle than from a natural follow through. The pokes also change the tangent angles as well as much as a foot off of the normal follow angle. I teach a 2.5 hour course on this subject.

The problem we have with beginner teachers today is they get in the student that has been making these funky strokes for some time and has acquired some skill with them. And what do they do, take them away telling him stroke it, don’t poke it.
Yo, El Wrongo: You take away what he knows and give him a new method he is terrible at and now he plays worse not better. You, the teacher suck here, not the student. Later he finds me and guess what, I give him back all of his pokes and dinks and teach him all over to make them again. Natural pool. We naturally figure out how to do things and lousy teachers take them away. There is a time to poke it. A time to stroke it. One is for shut down control, the other is for power. The student requires and needs multiple stroke methods and techniques. There can not be one way to hit a shot. There must be many.

To learn how to be a pure ball roller is something I cannot teach you over the net. Maybe on DVD, but most will have to see me on a private lesson. Most struggle with this new concept. For many, it may take an hour to get them doing it properly. Once they get it, they come back months later telling me this was perhaps the most valuable thing they acquired. It transforms you into a good player almost overnight. For the first time you begin to shoot straight. It is all about keeping the cue tip on the ball longer. Most of you can’t hit the CB high, or high enough and when you do, you slide off over the top of it losing power. Driving through, down the line level requires coaching, learning and a lot of practice. When you are using Side, English, most of you are again sliding off too much and not staying with the shot. When hitting with none or just a little English, most of you have some little twist through the ball which throws the object ball and is causing you to miss long shots. And 98% of you cannot hit the center of the cue ball. You do not have a clue how to and you have it grooved hitting it a tad right or left of center, again putting unknown and unwanted throw on the object ball. You all have these flaws and I have to go in and clean each of them up.

Once you get the feel of going into the ball and keeping that tip on the ball longer, then you know. The amount of English you now apply is more and the long shots begin falling because the unwanted throws are being eliminated.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((***)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))


BILLIARD SUPER STORE, lowest prices on pool tables, cues & accessories. We will meet or beat
any price on the net. You want it, we have it or we will get it.
www.billiards-superstore.com

TALK POOL, 900 members, polite people, no flame wars or bozos. Contests
Have recently given away free pool tables, cues and Seven thousand dollars of
Pool cues, racks, balls and DVD’s. It’s now the 4th largest site in the USA. These
Two sites, pool chat and FL POOL generate 10,000 hits a week from 37 countries.
www.poolchat.net

POOL SCHOOL. Book a lesson from a touring pro and master level instructor. Bring in a trick shot show
by a World Artistic champion. See world class trick shots steam live. Just click the trick shot show tab.
Natural pool, simple techniques, dramatic results. Video taped lesson. You get what you come for or the lesson is free.
THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL "Fast Larry" Guninger. POOL LESSONS FROM A MASTER LEVEL
INSTRUCTOR AND WORLD CHAMPION. 770-381-6609, fax 770-381-1916 web site www.fastlarrypool.com

THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. The total learning center. Explore the Encyclopedia section where there are
226 instruction articles and it’s all free access. Enough pool knowledge to fill 4 full books. Simply click the link,
hit enter, hit the tab at the far left which says Encyclopedia, then register free and read and advance your game.
Virtually every question you can have is answered there.
www.fastlarrypool.com

TRICK SHOT SHOW. Bring Fast Larry in to perform his mind boggling 100 shots. See him perform the
World famous legends show. See the greatest trick shots made that the greatest players performed. Very affordable
Rates. See the former world champion and Ripley’s believe it or not legend blow your socks off.
Email fastlarry @bellsouth.net fast larry at bell south dot net run those two together. Also use fastlarry @gmail.com
May God bless and peace be with you. May there now be peace between
us. If you are a real pool player, then fast truly loves you. May
the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall.
VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. "Fastus Maximus. " Latin for
"I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did
do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don't believe it,
C'est La Vie. " Shoot straight, innovate, never give up, just run out on the other guy then there is no way for you to lose. THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL GOES ON THE ROAD every year and may be coming to your home town. Check in with us to see if we can save you a trip to Atlanta. You can pick up the current schedule at www.poolchat.net under the forum ask fast Larry. Larry’s tour schedule is also posted at www.fastlarrypool.com
THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL GOES ON THE ROAD IN 2007.

We present the 2007 pool schools where you can take your game to that
next level you have dreamed about. Come to our work shop and learn
from a former world champion and master level instructor Fast Larry
Guninger. Two days of intense all day training on the weekends Saturday and Sunday.

The best price of any school. Only $237 a day, or $29 an hour. The
two day course is $475. No cattle car crowds where you get ignored. We
have the lowest amount of students per instructor of any school.
March 10-12 Philadelphia, Pa
April 14-15 Atlanta, Ga
May 5-6 Washington D.C.
May 26-27 St Pete, Fla
June 16-20 & 24-25 Las Vegas, Nevada
July 7-8 Orlando, Fla
August 13-18 Denver, Colo
August 19-31 San Diego, Calif
Sept 17-30 Miami, Florida and the Bahamas.
You can have the pool school come to your home room by simply getting
your entire league team to buy in for the 2 day course or get others in
your league or school to take part. You will have to get 5 players
who will put up small advance good faith deposits and then no matter
where you live, Oregon or Maine, we show up. You can now book the pool
school any time between January and July 2007. If you bring in five to the school
Then your lesson is free and you are the 6th student at no charge.
The pool schools have sold out for the last three years they have been
offered. As the number of students allowed is very small these slots
sell out very fast. Snooze and you lose. You can reserve your spot
today with only an advance deposit of $50 which is totally refunded if
you cancel out within 2 weeks of the school date.
For more details or to sign up and reserve your spot email to:
flenterpri...@bellsouth.net
Flenterprises @bellsouth.net run those two together
You may call 770-381-6609 to discuss it as well.

[Demondrew]

Here is a chart of standard table sizes and suggested room dimensions.

Table Size Minimum Room Size Actual Playing surface
3.5' x 7' 16' 8" x 13' 6" 39.5" x 79"
4' x 8' 17' 4" x 13' 11" 44" x 88"
4.25' x 8.5' 17' 9" x 14' 1" 46" x 92"
4.5' x 9' 18' 4" x 14' 6" 50" x 100"


Keep in mind these dimensions are for using a standard 58" 2 piece cue. If you use a shorter cue you will be able to use a smaller space.

I put my 9 footer in my basement. I had an engineer do the calculations and I was able to move my lally column up to 42" without modification to the beam. It seems I have an oversize beam. If your limitation is walls, well, thats another story.

I hope the chart above helps.
Good luck with your new table.