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IMO, the why is easy. It is the good old left brain butting in with its insults and thoughts that take us off the shot we are on that is the culpret.
Solution: Shut down the left brain during play
How: That is the hard part and why there are sports psychologists running around, trying to help players.
There is also the fact that no person on this planet has been able to shut down the part of the brain causing choking 100% of the time and everyone chokes, but it can be miniimized to a very large degree.
Then, in the person who has been very successful in this regard, it is recommended to have a backup plan to deal with those occasional times when the talking part of the brain does butt it, which can reduce choking even more.
What is going on inside the brain of the particular player to interfere with the play so that they choke AND cannot consistently play near zone level play? And what methods do we now propose to help that player?
There is a big motivation factor in all of this. FL can propose techniques to help the player in his book or private lessons and sports psychologists can give suggestions to players but the player has to want it bad enough to try out the suggestions until they find out what works for them.
Laura
[ Edited by bluewolf on 2004/8/15 18:30 ]
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Why do people choke?
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#2
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Posted 16 August 2004 - 08:23 AM
Actually, I am of the opinion that thinking is important. The issue is to make sure that what is being thought is helpful and productive. I don't think "shutting the left side of the brain down" is the answer. Actually, when I start trying to do that and go on "automatic" I miss more balls than I make, unless of course the shots are very easy ones. If the shot is more difficult, my brain, my left side of it or whatever, sure as heck better be engaged, or I am going to miss that shot! So, the information about how to make the shot should already be in the brain, the brain needs to sort out what must be done and exclude all that which is unhelpful, and then go about it. Being in the zone for me really works when the shots are very doable. At that point I can't miss. However, if a toughie comes up, whether through an inadvertent cue ball that goes too far, or another object ball that gets bumped wrongly, or whatever, at that moment, Time Out! Think this thing through. Don't go on automatic. Reassess. Take the right shot! KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid! I lost two games in an 8-ball league a few weeks ago against vastly superior players because I DIDN'T reassess, KISS, and so on. Should have easily won two games which since I was on automatic picked a tougher way to make a shot than a simple roll the ball in, come off the rail, pot the other duck. And nail the 8-ball. Thinking is the key, at least for me. When speaking with one of the players on the opposing team after I lost one of the games, he asked me if I ever get into a tunnel, that is going single handedly on a specific way of doing things. That's sort of what I did on that game when I lost. I should have won the game, and have chalked that experience up as a very good lesson. He told me the person I lost to, as well as he and their other teammate, had been playing for 18-20 years each. Asked me how long I've been at it... About a year. He told me I'm playing extremely well for such a short time. Doggone it, I should have won that game!! Anyway, IMHO, thinking is the solution, not the probem!
Best,
Black-dot
Oh and by the way, I really think the key is to exclude extraneous information your brain is feeding you, and to focus on making the shot, making it happen. That, for me, is a conscious thought process involving habits that become automatic and easily executable...
Best,
Black-dot
Oh and by the way, I really think the key is to exclude extraneous information your brain is feeding you, and to focus on making the shot, making it happen. That, for me, is a conscious thought process involving habits that become automatic and easily executable...
Zing it in... :-D
#3 Guest__*
Posted 16 August 2004 - 03:56 PM
It is funny how your opinion looks so different than mine, yet I see in many ways they are similar. I think that when one is standing and reading the table, the left brain does usually help plan the strategy. On a difficult shot, again while standing, the brain decides to go for the shot,in some cases how to do the shot(with some people anyway), do a shot-safety, or do a safe based on how it could leave for the opponent. But after these decisions are made, IMO, that part of the brain needs to shut up and relinquish control to the part of the brain (I call the right) which is best at execution, before getting down on the shot.
I have before called it the left-right switch. Lots of instructors teach that this must happen, but it is the how that is difficult for some people. Not doing the switch can result in choking, and other undesirable things.
You mentioned nonproductive thoughts. I will give an example of that.
We were at the playoffs and our sl3 was playing their very decent sl6, so a 5-2 race. The 6 won the first three easily with great shooting and shape. Then in the fourth game, our guy started getting in more balls. The six saw that if our 3 won, that would put him on the hill. you could see in his body language, the six was already in 'choke' before he choked on a shot. he started shooting bad and our 3 won.
In talking to him(the 6) afterwards, this was what had happened, his brain had started sending him what you call nonproductive messages. If he knew how to shut those down or to replace them with positive messages, then he could have continued to play his game and won easily.
The next question is when does choking occur. In the above case, it occured while the player was watching his opponent and unproductive thoughts or doubts entered his braiin. Some choke right before going down on the 'money ball', some choke on about the five or so in a 9-ball run, thinking they can go six and out but being unsure they can go 5 and out. I am not sure exactly what happens in the middle ball in nine ball, and maybe it is different for different players in reference to what is going on in their brain, I just know that for some, it happens.
Laura
I have before called it the left-right switch. Lots of instructors teach that this must happen, but it is the how that is difficult for some people. Not doing the switch can result in choking, and other undesirable things.
You mentioned nonproductive thoughts. I will give an example of that.
We were at the playoffs and our sl3 was playing their very decent sl6, so a 5-2 race. The 6 won the first three easily with great shooting and shape. Then in the fourth game, our guy started getting in more balls. The six saw that if our 3 won, that would put him on the hill. you could see in his body language, the six was already in 'choke' before he choked on a shot. he started shooting bad and our 3 won.
In talking to him(the 6) afterwards, this was what had happened, his brain had started sending him what you call nonproductive messages. If he knew how to shut those down or to replace them with positive messages, then he could have continued to play his game and won easily.
The next question is when does choking occur. In the above case, it occured while the player was watching his opponent and unproductive thoughts or doubts entered his braiin. Some choke right before going down on the 'money ball', some choke on about the five or so in a 9-ball run, thinking they can go six and out but being unsure they can go 5 and out. I am not sure exactly what happens in the middle ball in nine ball, and maybe it is different for different players in reference to what is going on in their brain, I just know that for some, it happens.
Laura
#4
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Posted 16 August 2004 - 04:13 PM
Golly gee whiz, have I got the answer. I now realize what the problem really is. It's called "performance anxiety" and everyone, or almost everyone, at some time or another "gets" it. It's the fear of having to perform on command. It's largely a psychological fear, and the key to overcoming it is not necessarily a rational thing. At times, the more one thinks about a problem the larger it looms in the mind.
But there is a way to kill the monster, even if for some it would be an inadvisable path to take.
But first, a short item about how I figured out how to lick this beast. I play the trumpet, not that well, but well enough to play sometimes in front of 100 people, and not just playing the trumpet with a group of others at the same time, which tends to mask any slight error. But solo. As in totally alone, at a totally silent moment, when the slightest "bleep" or "bwonk" is fatal. Now THAT is a moment for performance anxiety to grab me by the throat and choke the daylights out of me. It doesn't matter if I don't want to play, because I HAVE to. So what have I found works wonders??
It's oh so simple....
A half glass of wine... yup... a half glass of wine about 15 minutes before that first clear note... Guess what it does? It distends the muscles ever so slightly, and takes the edge off... Just the ticket for a brilliant performance. After that half glass of wine, if I make a mistake, which does happen now and then, I just slough it off. Hah! It's just one note...or two or three... But guess what? I'm playing and playing beautiful music, and I know it sounds just GREAT !! And on I go....
While I've yet to try my half glass when the choke monster comes up on me in a pool match, I'll have a little bottle of "medicine" in my cue case next time... By the way, more than half a glass (for me, that is) can dull the senses a bit and lead to a lackluster performance...
Cheers!!
Black-dot
But there is a way to kill the monster, even if for some it would be an inadvisable path to take.
But first, a short item about how I figured out how to lick this beast. I play the trumpet, not that well, but well enough to play sometimes in front of 100 people, and not just playing the trumpet with a group of others at the same time, which tends to mask any slight error. But solo. As in totally alone, at a totally silent moment, when the slightest "bleep" or "bwonk" is fatal. Now THAT is a moment for performance anxiety to grab me by the throat and choke the daylights out of me. It doesn't matter if I don't want to play, because I HAVE to. So what have I found works wonders??
It's oh so simple....
A half glass of wine... yup... a half glass of wine about 15 minutes before that first clear note... Guess what it does? It distends the muscles ever so slightly, and takes the edge off... Just the ticket for a brilliant performance. After that half glass of wine, if I make a mistake, which does happen now and then, I just slough it off. Hah! It's just one note...or two or three... But guess what? I'm playing and playing beautiful music, and I know it sounds just GREAT !! And on I go....
While I've yet to try my half glass when the choke monster comes up on me in a pool match, I'll have a little bottle of "medicine" in my cue case next time... By the way, more than half a glass (for me, that is) can dull the senses a bit and lead to a lackluster performance...
Cheers!!
Black-dot
Zing it in... :-D
#5
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Posted 16 August 2004 - 04:37 PM
'Replace them with positive messages' huh?
I'd come to the conclusion that any kinds of messages were ultimately negative.
What kind of things would be positive?
Also, I've been meaning to ask you and Fast,
any advice on re-programming the brain ?
Until now I've used visualisation of how I want to behave in certain situations as a means to program myself to do so.
But it's a slow struggle to overcome what have become deep natural reactions over several years, and continue to happen in real play now.
Also, again, there seems to be little positive to aim for - it's hard to visualise myself being right-brained when the visualising procedure feels rather left-brained by nature.
I'd come to the conclusion that any kinds of messages were ultimately negative.
What kind of things would be positive?
Also, I've been meaning to ask you and Fast,
any advice on re-programming the brain ?
Until now I've used visualisation of how I want to behave in certain situations as a means to program myself to do so.
But it's a slow struggle to overcome what have become deep natural reactions over several years, and continue to happen in real play now.
Also, again, there seems to be little positive to aim for - it's hard to visualise myself being right-brained when the visualising procedure feels rather left-brained by nature.
#6
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Posted 16 August 2004 - 04:47 PM
Black Dot,
I'd been thinking about this, after suffering another bout at the weekend.
Hmm, I think Performance Anxiety seems fairly accurate.
It feels partly a fear of failure, partly a fear of the stage/attention you get - I don't think it's just because then the failure is 'bigger' on the bigger stages that court attention, but failure in public makes it worse...
I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting at here yet, I'm still 'feeling it out'.
But I think if I can understand why the performance anxiety occurs, if I can rationalise it and see what is happening, I think I can begin to stop the reaction happening...
I'd been thinking about this, after suffering another bout at the weekend.
Hmm, I think Performance Anxiety seems fairly accurate.
It feels partly a fear of failure, partly a fear of the stage/attention you get - I don't think it's just because then the failure is 'bigger' on the bigger stages that court attention, but failure in public makes it worse...
I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting at here yet, I'm still 'feeling it out'.
But I think if I can understand why the performance anxiety occurs, if I can rationalise it and see what is happening, I think I can begin to stop the reaction happening...
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Posted 16 August 2004 - 08:58 PM
Yes,progress is inner reflection. Between all of our minds, we can help each other.You get one thing or two from blackdot, craig, me and us from you. We all help each other to solve a complex riddle.
I see another aspect to this 'performance anxiety'. I use my husband as a subject, because I think that he reflects what goes on in the minds of many who are reasonably good players.
In our league, he is at the top of the heap, kind of like a big fish in a small pond. i see that he thinks he is a good seven (he is) and when he is not performing this way, he starts thinking, 'is it my stroke? am I off my game? oh gosh, if I do not start shooting better, i will let my team down. because I am the best player on the team they are counting on me'.He forgets that 5 matches are played and to win you have to win three, so the win or the loss for the night is not all on his shoulders, yet he tries to carry a burdon that is not his to carry. others in tournaments have other thoughts that put burdons on their shoulders, such as letting down their sponsors or friends rooting and letting down themselfs, tournament play is just another kind of play, but the mind can affect the player just the same.
So the mind is like a trip hammer, on and on it goes, racing from one thought to another, and that leads to choke.
These thoughts are not about reading the table, coming up with a plan, how to make a tuff shot or position but self-doubt and self=recrimination. he and others have certain perceptions of himself and how he SHOULD be playing. Once consumed with all of this racing of doubts and disappointments, the mind is no longer just looking at the strategy and the plan and it can no longer move from shot to shot, doing what the monk advised when he said to 'be one with the shot'.
Listen to Craig too. he has somehow gotten the way to relax, to move from one shot to another, without preconceptions of the outcome. To have that killer instinct, to perform at the highest level possiible, but to be able to move from one shot to the other, with each shot being of equal importance, while having a spirit of humility seems to be much of the key in all of this.
I have ideas and can articulate pretty well because wtriting and expressing myself in writing comes easily for me, but i too need the insight of others. often what I say has been said by others mixed with some of my thoughts. Then when someone says things in a different way, learning happens.
i thank you all for helping me to learn also.
BTW, to answer your question. On those nights when one is in that space to move from one shot to another and be relaxed, one gets on a shot and is nervous, because the mind is giving derogatory messages or planting seeds of self doubt. This is the time for the backup plan. The mind cannot be thinking a positive and a negative thing at the same time. Once i was on the 8, match point and my mind was saying, 'are you sure you can make that, if you screw up you lose the match and so on'. On that ocassion, i said to myself ' you can trust your stroke', got down and without anxiety, because the good thought pushed out the interfering ones, and i was able to get down on the shot and sink the 8. others have other things they say to themselves before going down on the shot, on those games, so it is whatever works, Imo.
Laura
I see another aspect to this 'performance anxiety'. I use my husband as a subject, because I think that he reflects what goes on in the minds of many who are reasonably good players.
In our league, he is at the top of the heap, kind of like a big fish in a small pond. i see that he thinks he is a good seven (he is) and when he is not performing this way, he starts thinking, 'is it my stroke? am I off my game? oh gosh, if I do not start shooting better, i will let my team down. because I am the best player on the team they are counting on me'.He forgets that 5 matches are played and to win you have to win three, so the win or the loss for the night is not all on his shoulders, yet he tries to carry a burdon that is not his to carry. others in tournaments have other thoughts that put burdons on their shoulders, such as letting down their sponsors or friends rooting and letting down themselfs, tournament play is just another kind of play, but the mind can affect the player just the same.
So the mind is like a trip hammer, on and on it goes, racing from one thought to another, and that leads to choke.
These thoughts are not about reading the table, coming up with a plan, how to make a tuff shot or position but self-doubt and self=recrimination. he and others have certain perceptions of himself and how he SHOULD be playing. Once consumed with all of this racing of doubts and disappointments, the mind is no longer just looking at the strategy and the plan and it can no longer move from shot to shot, doing what the monk advised when he said to 'be one with the shot'.
Listen to Craig too. he has somehow gotten the way to relax, to move from one shot to another, without preconceptions of the outcome. To have that killer instinct, to perform at the highest level possiible, but to be able to move from one shot to the other, with each shot being of equal importance, while having a spirit of humility seems to be much of the key in all of this.
I have ideas and can articulate pretty well because wtriting and expressing myself in writing comes easily for me, but i too need the insight of others. often what I say has been said by others mixed with some of my thoughts. Then when someone says things in a different way, learning happens.
i thank you all for helping me to learn also.
BTW, to answer your question. On those nights when one is in that space to move from one shot to another and be relaxed, one gets on a shot and is nervous, because the mind is giving derogatory messages or planting seeds of self doubt. This is the time for the backup plan. The mind cannot be thinking a positive and a negative thing at the same time. Once i was on the 8, match point and my mind was saying, 'are you sure you can make that, if you screw up you lose the match and so on'. On that ocassion, i said to myself ' you can trust your stroke', got down and without anxiety, because the good thought pushed out the interfering ones, and i was able to get down on the shot and sink the 8. others have other things they say to themselves before going down on the shot, on those games, so it is whatever works, Imo.
Laura
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Posted 17 August 2004 - 05:05 PM
Ideally i have a clear head. For the occasion that I get nervous, using a positive thought to put out a negative one is the 'backup' plan to keep from choking.
Noone can keep a clear head 100% of the time. Knowing this, it is good to have a 'backupplan'
Laura
Noone can keep a clear head 100% of the time. Knowing this, it is good to have a 'backupplan'
Laura
#10
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Posted 23 August 2004 - 08:25 AM
Laura and friends,
I would have to say that personally my "back-up plan" is to stand back up from the table. Walk over to my drink, take a short drink (doesn't matter it is alcoholic or not) and rechalk my cue. What I am doing is resetting my mind and restarting my pre-shot ritual. I have convinced my mind and body that to think negative thoughts about a shot is not part of my shooting ritual and if they do pop in while I am down on the table. I will just stand back up and reset "the machine". I have convinced my mind that negative thoughts are wrong and don't have a place in "the machine" that is shooting the balls in the pockets. Some people may see this as a weakness, but they are missing the subtle clues. I don't wipe my hands, because they are not sweating. I don't unbutton my shirt, because I am not hot. I am not drinking my drink to get "liquid courage". I am reseting the machine that is programmed to pot balls and win matches. I am cold as ice when at the table. After I shoot I kiss my fiance and tell her I love her. I then have to walk a way for a little while because I don't want to look at her with the eyes/mind that attacks weaknesses in my opponents. I walk away and reset my brain to be the man she fell in love with, not the cold feelingless man that shoots pool for the thrill of victory. They are 2 very distinct and different men and need to be treated as such. I carefully box away the pool shooter when not in a pool hall. He is a dangerous and pragmatic person that only cares about survival and winning. He has no place in the rest of my day-in/day-out life.
Make sure to reset the machine and always make sure you are taking your best chance. That is how I beat the negative thoughts when I am at the table.
Hope I helped!
Craig
I would have to say that personally my "back-up plan" is to stand back up from the table. Walk over to my drink, take a short drink (doesn't matter it is alcoholic or not) and rechalk my cue. What I am doing is resetting my mind and restarting my pre-shot ritual. I have convinced my mind and body that to think negative thoughts about a shot is not part of my shooting ritual and if they do pop in while I am down on the table. I will just stand back up and reset "the machine". I have convinced my mind that negative thoughts are wrong and don't have a place in "the machine" that is shooting the balls in the pockets. Some people may see this as a weakness, but they are missing the subtle clues. I don't wipe my hands, because they are not sweating. I don't unbutton my shirt, because I am not hot. I am not drinking my drink to get "liquid courage". I am reseting the machine that is programmed to pot balls and win matches. I am cold as ice when at the table. After I shoot I kiss my fiance and tell her I love her. I then have to walk a way for a little while because I don't want to look at her with the eyes/mind that attacks weaknesses in my opponents. I walk away and reset my brain to be the man she fell in love with, not the cold feelingless man that shoots pool for the thrill of victory. They are 2 very distinct and different men and need to be treated as such. I carefully box away the pool shooter when not in a pool hall. He is a dangerous and pragmatic person that only cares about survival and winning. He has no place in the rest of my day-in/day-out life.
Make sure to reset the machine and always make sure you are taking your best chance. That is how I beat the negative thoughts when I am at the table.
Hope I helped!
Craig
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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:39 PM
Craig,
That ability to reset sounds to me like a powerful mental tool. it reminds me of an old song that went something like this
'when I am weak, I need for you to be kind
when I am strong, I need for you to be tough...tough and tender'
So when we are shooting, to be calm ice machines, one with the shot, but in leaving the table and the pool hall to be a kind person. Too many cannot turn this on and off. If they are kind in life, they are basket cases at the table. If they are icemen at the table, they are a-holes to everyone they know, even when they leave the pool hall.
So, what you have there is a powerful ability and a gift.
Laura
That ability to reset sounds to me like a powerful mental tool. it reminds me of an old song that went something like this
'when I am weak, I need for you to be kind
when I am strong, I need for you to be tough...tough and tender'
So when we are shooting, to be calm ice machines, one with the shot, but in leaving the table and the pool hall to be a kind person. Too many cannot turn this on and off. If they are kind in life, they are basket cases at the table. If they are icemen at the table, they are a-holes to everyone they know, even when they leave the pool hall.
So, what you have there is a powerful ability and a gift.
Laura
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