[Pelican]

To continue a bit on "hard shooters", I hear a lot of kids complain that they can't understand why that ball did go down but just "bounced around in the pocket". I have my own idea and would like yours.

My thought is the harder you shoot the more the object ball acquires rail induced english. If you shoot a hard shoot into the corner and the OB touches the rail, say on the left, it acquires right hand english. The brush with the rail forces the ball to the right side facing where the right hand english wants to pull it back out of the pocket but it can't so it bounces it across to the left facing which kills the english and allows the ball to wobble back and jaw up.

Is this what happens? Has anyone ever done any super slo-mo video to determine what occurs?

I certainly agree that you need enough hit to prevent roll off. I reckon I am the exception to the norm because my "feel good" thing would be to run a full rack where every ball rolled off the slate without hitting the back of the pocket. :-o That would be super finesse.

Later, Pel

[Big_Bad_Bern]

Hi Pel, I think your description of what happens to a ball shot very hard into the pocket is accurate for the most part but there are a couple of important variables I think you missed and they are the cut and angle of the pocket facings and the depth of the pocket shelf.

I think Larry hit this right on the button when he stated that table manufactures changed the way tables played when pool stopped being charged by the game and went to an hourly rate. When pool was charged byt eh game the room owners(main pool table purchasers at the time) wanted the tables to play loose and sloppy so taht more balls were pocketed quicker and more games could be played in the alotted time to garner them more profit. But once pool started to be charged by the hour it didn't matter t the owners how the tables played and the manufactures started to listen to the pro players ( mosconi etc.) and the table design was changed to favor the more skilled player ( the one who could most accurately shoot the balls in the pocket) by squaring the pocket jaws, decreasing the canted angle of the facing and deepening the shelf in the mouth of the pocket thus causing balls played at firm to hard speed to jaw out even on shots that didn't touch the rail on the way in.
We are seeing the extreme continueation of this at the pro level today with the 4" to 4 1/4" pockets at the world championship. I think that these pockets are a great test of potting skills but are eliminating great shots and position plays that were common place 5 to10 years ago, in other words they don't test your overall game just your potting and ability to stay in line with perfect angles and speed. I think anything below 4 1/2" ( two ball widths) is not needed and just takes away from the game of pool, if you want to test your potting play snooker!

Now in the same breath I also believe in practising on the tightest table you can handle, because if you can play your standard game on a tough table you will be that much better on standard equipment, and your concentration will be unparalled.

I do not know of any super slow-mo of this but it sure would be great to see it.

Your super finesse would be great in 8ball and if you played close enough postion you could probably even use some stop shots or short draws and finess balls into the pocket as well as playing angles to accomplish this with rolling shots, but I think that to do this in 9ball the angles you would have to leave for yourself would be to extreme or you would be forced to take to many low percentage shots form to far away.

Hopefully some time we will meet up somewhere and hit some balls together and share our theories in person.

Bern

[Pelican]

Woulod love to meet and mke your acquaintance Bern.

Oh, of all the pool games played, I would say 9 ball is my least favorite. Probably because - I AIN'T NO GOOD AT IT!!!

Pel :-D

[TryingHard]

There's a site that I've linked before with slow-mo video clips. The one you ask about is here:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/hi...deos/HSV3-8.htm

And for the complete list:
http://www.engr.colo...h_speed_videos/

Enjoy...