[jlrowe]

Whats your opinion? should jump cues be banned completely? it has been banned in some tournaments what do you think? do you consider jumping a true skill or easy way out from kicking?

[Marlboro Man]

A little bit of both actually. If you are used to using a jump cue instead of kicking it is an easy way out. I know a lot of people that you could hand them the best jump cue in the world and they couldn't get the Cue ball off of the table. But at the same time they can run that CB around the table and hit anything they want. I personally think using a jump cue takes some skill. But it is no excuse not to learn how to kick at a ball.

[Black-dot]

My jump cue pops the ball down table effortlessly (made it myself :-D ) Even so, it won't get me out of lots of situations, at least not without danger of bouncing the cue ball off the table. Hence, kicking is necessary. However, skill with a cump cue should be developed, as like it or not, jump cues are here to stay. By the way, some of the fellows I play with are so skillful playing safeties that the best jumper in the world would be stuck, and 2, 3 and 4 rail banks are the only way out.

Gotta say it's oh so sweet to see a cue ball fly downtable to smack a ball and sink it...... The look of disgust on my opponent's face makes it all worthwhile :-D

Black-dot

[FASTLARRY]

Yes for the pros, no for the league amateur players. :-D

[Black-dot]

Interesting... Why shouldn't pros be allowed to use them?

[FASTLARRY]

They can jump many shots with their regular cues, hit masses and bank with great accuracy, the amateurs do not have these same skills and need some help, jump cues. There is a big market for sales of jump cues for millions of amateurs, there is no market for the in the pros, they all expect them to be given to them for free.

You can have two standards, two rule books for the amateurs and the pros.

[Black-dot]

Dear Fast,

Thanks for the answer!

Now, I have another question :-o

I have found it practically impossible to make my Meucci with black-dot shaft jump, no doubt because the shaft is super low deflection and pretty flexible. At the same time, my jump cue will make the cue ball pop without any trouble, but it is a bit difficult to control, to say the least. If, for instance, I'd like to jump and put back spin on the cue ball, it's really tough, and I haven't really figured out how to get it to do that well. I suppose that with a regular cue it might be easier to do it. Here's my question: what should I look for in a shaft on a regular cue that will work reasonably well for jumping? How stiff should it be? What tip do you recommend for it?

Thank you, Sir!

Black-dot

[Marlboro Man]

To address your first issue the meucci shaft does not jump well because it is to flexible. You can make it jump a little better by putting a super hard tip on it. That will make it jump but it still will not compare to a jump cues performance.

You second issue which is putting draw on the cue ball after a jump is a little more complicated. As you jack your cue up your center line changes. So the bottom of the cue ball would now be what was the center of the cue ball on a horizontal axis. If you have your cue on an approximate 30 degree angle as you would if the object ball was about 12 inches or more away. You strike the center of the cue ball on a horizontal axis. In other words after you jack your cue up hit what would be the center of the cue ball if you were shooting with a level cue. This will put draw on the cue ball after it jumps. You have a few degrees on the angle you have your cue that you can play with to put more or less draw on the cue ball.

The third issue you had was the shaft. The cuetec jump break has a 13mm tip on it which is normal playing size. Any stiff shaft will work. If you put a talisman hard tip on it it will jump great. But if you are only going to be using it for jumping then I would put a melamine jump pherol on it. If you do that you will not have to worry about replacing the tip ever because it won't have one.

[ Edited by Marlboro Man on 2004/5/16 17:47 ]

[FASTLARRY]

Know you are beginning to know why I tour with two cues, the Meucci and the very stiff Schuler. I jump with the Schuler. A Meucci or a predator 314 wont jump over a quarter, they do not jump worth a crap, so don't jump with them. If a jump shot comes up, go grab a dufferin house cue, real stiff, real strong, use it or carry a short light jump stick.
I carry the Stealth and sell it for $125, it is wonderful.

The Meucci's and the Predators has soft very thin walled ferrules. That gives you much less deflection but you give up the jump for it. Hey, I don't want the ball jumping on a lot of shots, like hard force follows and drives. A very hard ivory ferrule would jump very good, so you see it's all in the ferrule. Yes putting a very hard tip on a Meucci would help some, but that is not the answer. Just do not jump with them, that is the answer.

May God bless and peace be with you. May the wind be always on your back and
all 9 balls fall. VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. “Fastus Maximus. “ Latin for “I came, I saw, I conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can believe it, or not. If you don’t believe it, C’est La Vie. A prophet is not recognized in his own land. Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. In time, it’s all dust in the wind anyway. Email fastlarry@bellsouth.net The Power Source Traveling Pool School. To see my web page come alive click http://www.fastlarrypool.com “Fast Larry” Guninger
:-D :-o :-o :-P

[TopSpin]

"A very hard ivory ferrule would jump very good, so you see its all in the ferrule".

Fast, I have a Sledgehammer break/jump cue. What do you think of the tip /ferrule system being all in one - thre's no actual tip. The hard, phenolic ferrule is shaped at the end and serves as the "tip". It seems to work quite well, but I'm not a pro. What do you think? Thanks...

[FASTLARRY]

Most of these new break cues I have hit I did not like. I like a solid 21.5oz cue nice and stiff with a talisman x tip, that works for me. What I use seems to be the opposite of what's going on now which is a $1500 Schuler or a $2500 southwest which are playing cues I break with that have strong shafts. I have held the break record at both 8 and 9 ball since 1961, making 8 balls on the snap at both games, I made 7 on the snap a few weeks ago, so I guess I know nothing about this subject as everyone ignores what I think and teach on it. :-D :-o :-o :-P

[ Edited by FASTLARRY on 2004/5/22 15:35 ]

[Marlboro Man]

I kind of like the phenolic jump/break pherols. It's pretty nifty not ever having to worry about reshaping the tip or getting rid of the mushroom which has happened pretty often for me. Well it did until I switched to triangle tips. Now I've started experimenting with the talisman series. They seem to have a pretty good product.

[FASTLARRY]

' date='May 22 2004, 06:44 AM said:

I kind of like the phenolic jump/break pherols. It's pretty nifty not ever having to worry about reshaping the tip or getting rid of the mushroom which has happened pretty often for me. Well it did until I switched to triangle tips. Now I've started experimenting with the talisman series. They seem to have a pretty good product.

The jump is a cool shot and a lot of people are making a lot of money on them. I say, Ok for the leagues and amateurs but ban them for the pros. We should have to jump with the cue we play with. Earl and I can jump over a full ball with our play cue, not real close up but a foot away. Others could learn how if they were forced to. Earl agrees with me on this subject. A pro should not buy a shot with a piece of equipment. He should learn how to make the shot. It will force them to learn how to Masse and kick better if we banned the cue.

[FASTLARRY]

' date='May 22 2004, 06:44 AM said:

I kind of like the phenolic jump/break pherols. It's pretty nifty not ever having to worry about reshaping the tip or getting rid of the mushroom which has happened pretty often for me. Well it did until I switched to triangle tips. Now I've started experimenting with the talisman series. They seem to have a pretty good product.

The jump is a cool shot and a lot of people are making a lot of money on them. I say, Ok for the leagues and amateurs but ban them for the pros. We should have to jump with the cue we play with. Earl and I can jump over a full ball with our play cue, not real close up but a foot away. Others could learn how if they were forced to. Earl agrees with me on this subject. A pro should not buy a shot with a piece of equipment. He should learn how to make the shot. It will force them to learn how to Masse and kick better if we banned the cue.

[Sodapop]

I think jump cues should be aloud, it forces a player to play better safties. I use to just hook guys behind balls then they would always jump out of it, now when I hook a guy I try to get as close to the object ball im hiding him behind as possible, this eliminates the jump shot and alot of the kicking angles, but I did not start doing this until I played against a guy who jumped or kicked out of everything so it forced me to play more precise safties.

If they can use sand wedges in golf to get out of sand traps they put them selves in, then I should be able to use a jump cue to get out of a tuff situation someone else put me in, most guys only know how to sink 3 balls then duck, so if they want to duck they better learn to play lock tight safties to eliminate kicking and jumping routes, or else they don't have a prayer against a stronger player.

Plus fans love watching jump shots, and you need fan interest to promote the sport, so that is another reason I am in favor of the jump cue. I remember seeing CJ Wiley make some amazing jump draw back shots in a 9 ball match that made my jaw drop, I'm not sure if the shots would of been possible without a jump cue.

[FASTLARRY]

Sodapop, on Dec 20 2007, 10:03 PM, said:

I think jump cues should be aloud, it forces a player to play better safties. I use to just hook guys behind balls then they would always jump out of it, now when I hook a guy I try to get as close to the object ball im hiding him behind as possible, this eliminates the jump shot and alot of the kicking angles, but I did not start doing this until I played against a guy who jumped or kicked out of everything so it forced me to play more precise safties.

If they can use sand wedges in golf to get out of sand traps they put them selves in, then I should be able to use a jump cue to get out of a tuff situation someone else put me in, most guys only know how to sink 3 balls then duck, so if they want to duck they better learn to play lock tight safties to eliminate kicking and jumping routes, or else they don't have a prayer against a stronger player.

Plus fans love watching jump shots, and you need fan interest to promote the sport, so that is another reason I am in favor of the jump cue. I remember seeing CJ Wiley make some amazing jump draw back shots in a 9 ball match that made my jaw drop, I'm not sure if the shots would of been possible without a jump cue.

I fully realize I am in the minority on this subject. That issue has long been settled, but I still like to bitch about it.

[Sodapop]

FASTLARRY, on Dec 20 2007, 11:12 PM, said:

I fully realize I am in the minority on this subject. That issue has long been settled, but I still like to ***** about it.

I never looked at the date of the post sorry, how are all these old post ending up on the first page of the main forum?
Is this site a bit unorganized since the change over.

[JoeS]

Sodapop, on Dec 20 2007, 09:18 PM, said:

I never looked at the date of the post sorry, how are all these old post ending up on the first page of the main forum?
Is this site a bit unorganized since the change over.

These are just old topics that FL or anyone decided to bump back up... there are new members on the board and such (me included ) and the subject matter is still relevant regardless of the date of the post.

As for jump cues... I don't really have an opinion. My tournament exposure is pretty non-existant so I'll let youg uys know when I figure this one out.

[FASTLARRY]

JoeS, on Dec 21 2007, 04:30 AM, said:

These are just old topics that FL or anyone decided to bump back up... there are new members on the board and such (me included ) and the subject matter is still relevant regardless of the date of the post.

As for jump cues... I don't really have an opinion. My tournament exposure is pretty non-existant so I'll let youg uys know when I figure this one out.

One of the guys was digging around in the old archives and brought a couple of old subject up and people liked them. Many were not here several years ago and never saw them. We have 5 full years of topics any one can go back to. The people here are weak on starting new topics, they mostly just read and mine the data and a few do post and want to interchange ideas and opinions. So I plan to find and bring back some good topics every day and just because they came around once, does not mean they can't come around twice for a new audience, most here did not see them the first time around.

As you all know, we want a lively debate or ideas exchange. Argue with me, tell me I am wrong all you want to and nobody gets in trouble for that here as long as you are polite about your debate. Be a gentleman and I would love for you to tell me I am wrong. Hell, I am wrong about something every day, and when I am, I correct my mistakes. I know a lot, because I can quick to change and learn what is right.

We truly have free speech here, not like on the Gay Nazi board howie runs, or the bottom feeder board jumbo the whale runs. If you don't say what they like, or kiss their ass, you are gone. So if you are tired of that, post here more and tell others about us.

[ballbanger]

FASTLARRY, on Dec 21 2007, 05:23 PM, said:

One of the guys was digging around in the old archives and brought a couple of old subject up and people liked them. Many were not here several years ago and never saw them. We have 5 full years of topics any one can go back to. The people here are weak on starting new topics, they mostly just read and mine the data and a few do post and want to interchange ideas and opinions. So I plan to find and bring back some good topics every day and just because they came around once, does not mean they can't come around twice for a new audience, most here did not see them the first time around.

As you all know, we want a lively debate or ideas exchange. Argue with me, tell me I am wrong all you want to and nobody gets in trouble for that here as long as you are polite about your debate. Be a gentleman and I would love for you to tell me I am wrong. ****, I am wrong about something every day, and when I am, I correct my mistakes. I know a lot, because I can quick to change and learn what is right.

We truly have free speech here, not like on the Gay ###### board howie runs, or the bottom feeder board jumbo the whale runs. If you don't say what they like, or kiss their ***, you are gone. So if you are tired of that, post here more and tell others about us.

You aint gettin my gun or my jump cue, I need both of them.