[Billy_Bob]

I saw an "old timer" advising a beginning player to use english for almost every shot. Even to use english to make balls, and to use english to make balls where a center ball hit would work. (Note that this old timer likes to always win!)

This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! (for a beginner.)

1st. Shoot just the cue ball at the far center diamond. Next shoot just the cue ball at the far center diamond fairly hard with left english, then same with right english. Notice that the cue ball goes to different places when using english?

So you need to aim differently when using english.

2nd. Your brain learns where to aim for each shot "automatically". If you start aiming differently for english shots, it will mess this up and throw off your dead center hit aiming. Best to get a lot of time under your belt (several years) of dead center hits before attempting to aim differently when using english.

3rd. A spinning cue ball with alter the direction an object ball goes with cut shots. So this is yet another "aiming adjustment" you would need to make.

4th. Shooting a long shot with english to cut a ball in at the far end of the table can be an aiming nightmare for a beginner! Best to keep it a center ball hit.

I feel it is best for beginners to not use english at all. And if you want to leave the cue ball in a good spot for your next shot, you can usually do this with follow, stun, or draw. You may not be able to draw the cue ball back on a shot. But if you use a fast shot and follow (lots of follow through on stroke), you can get the cue ball to hit the far rail and then come back.

Remember you can always go "forward" to get the cue ball to come back.

I do use english, but only if absolutely necessary. I can do most of my position play with follow, stun, draw, and using the correct speed.

[eddiefast]

Billy Bob...

As someone that's been trying to learn this great game for over 35 years I agree with everything you've said about using english... For rookies I think that just one bit if clarification is in order however.

The way I define it, english is defined as putting a spin on whitey, whether it be right, left, bottom or top. If you define it that way you need to understand that follow and draw shots qualify as putting english on the cue ball. I know that I'm being a bit picky here but my point is that even beginners should learn something about english. However, agreeing with your analysis, they should limit their use at first to using mostly center bottom or top and get used to controlling the motion of the cue ball AFTER it contacts the object ball.... stop, draw, follow.

Also, remember that even a draw shot or a follow shot [bottom or top] will impart the opposit spin on the object ball and change the reaction of that ball... for example, in a game of 8 Ball if you're attempting a STRAIGHT IN combo shot when your ball is in back of one of your opponent's balls that is sitting in the jaws of the pocket, you can put low english on the cue ball which will spin your ball forward [the first of the two balls in the combination] and, if done right, it should follow the opponent's ball into the pocket.

I agree with you however that beginners should refrain from using much right or left for a while until they have some playing time under their belt.

[knc1303]

My dad taught me a few basics of shooting when I was a kid. I played a little in highschool and college. A year and a half ago I started shooting alot a local sports bar. Mostly regulars. There are quite a few players that are very good. They have taught me alot and helped me learn more. But the one thing that everyone pushes me on is using English on my shots. Its something that I just don't do. I try and try to tell people that I'm still at a point where i need to concentrate on my shot as is. Could I shoot better if I learned to use English, probably. But right now I do quite okay not using it. I've gotten second several times in the tournament they have and have run the table on occassion. I've also had my turn at beating some of the best up there a few times. When I try to use English I usually end up missing my shot altogether. At least using left or right, it just throws me off. I guess what I'm saying is that I totally agree. I still consider myself a beginner.

[Billy_Bob]

Good for you! If these people really knew about english, they would also know the pitfalls and would not be telling you to use english!

I was playing 8-ball with a beginner friend who I advised to not use english. I think we played 2 games and on the second to last ball of the second game, I told him...

OK Now I am going to shoot this shot using a bit of english. This is the first shot I will use english on since we started playing. Then I showed him that it would make the cue ball come back a little more wide, but I did not *have* to use english.

So I was keeping track of when I used english, and I do know how to use english - I can use english if needed - But I shot almost two whole games without needing to use english.

There will come a time when you will want to learn to use english. But I feel you are correct in not trying to use it yet.

Keep up the good playing and congratulations on the wins!

[Gentlemen]

hello

[FASTLARRY]

Welcome

[seymore15074]

Quote

PoolSleuth wrote:
Englisg, Draw, and Follow are POWERFUL TOOLS in the Game of Pool. Those who have not MASTERED them are called LOOSERS in Matches & Tournments....


LEARN English, Draw & Follow to be a Better Player. :-D :-o :-o :-o :-D

I'm with you. Beginners should be taught to make balls first, then to snap-draw, and then set up 3 or so simple senario shots using english to get up and down table...let them dwell on that for a while...

From there on out, use english, use english, use english! There is no simple connect the dot system to aim using english, you have to play the shots until it is automatic; if you don't, you'll never harness the power of it!

Also, english can be used to so many degrees. There isn't just extreme high-left, there's high extreme-left, etc... 1/2 a tip this way, etc....there are endless possibilities and this will be the key to working around a rack without disturbing other balls.

English is mainly used to help you get up and down table. It can open up or tighten angles of rebound off of the rail to avoid scratching or hitting another ball. It can even help you slow down and hold the cue-ball for position.

[Demondrew]

Do you really think about the english? I use english while I'm shooting but it seems to be automatic. Most of the time when someone asks me what english I used I have to stop and think how the ball got where it is from where it was. The only time I think about english is just before I'm going to do something really extreme. . .or is it just me?

[FASTLARRY]

This means you are becoming advanced and enlightnened. You are becoming a Zen player. You are allowing your computer to do it for you. You no longer have to direct it. Bravo...