[westhills2]

Ok, so I have a question regarding the type and quality of pool tables in pool halls.

I have been conducting market research in my area as to the feasibility of opening a pool hall and equipment supply shop.

I have grown up with Brunswick tables, and I have chosen to run with them. I would eventually like to become an official Brunswick table dealer, seeing as there is NOT one in my entire state.

My question is, is it feasible to have your showroom be your playroom? What I mean is, would it be okay to have all sorts of different Brunswick tables on display and for use in the pool hall as long as they are the same dimension and playing surface area size, same felt color and all?

I have been looking at basic Brunswick models such as the Bristol, Gibson, Highlander, Cosmopolitan, etc. I have contacted a dealer in my extended region about negotiating a deal. Would it be interesting if you walked into a pool hall and were able to play on different models of tables? Would that make you want to buy one of them more to be able to actually play on it?

Or, would it be more proper to have all the same model table and then just sell from a separate showroom or a catalog?

The more opinions I can get on this the better. And if someone knows anything relating to the subject on the marketing side, please let me know! Thanks all in advance.

[WebDude]

Although I'm surely no expert, the pool hall down here was originally a dealership and pool hall, and there are many different models of table. It's been done successfully before, if that helps.

[Pin]

As someone who is thinking about getting a table, when I move into some place big enough, I would love to be able to try the tables out, or at least see the thing 'in the flesh' before buying.

It's a big purchase, and there's always a little doubt in the back of your mind as to quality if you've not seen a table of the model you plan to order.

However, if they were also in regular use you'd need to make sure to keep them in excellent condition, level and with minimal marks to the cloth, to show them off at their best.
Letting the customer see the table is only a good thing if they're not disappointed!

Also, if you had one of each table, and a customer dropped by while some were in use, it'd be a bit of a problem asking paying customers to interrupt their table time to let your customer have a go.

Perhaps an hour set aside each day where the showroom tables were kept free for prospective buyers to test them, or customers could book times to take a look. Although either way does compromise the spontenaity of a customer wanting to walk in and try the tables.

I'm sure you can choose a satisfactory way around it, but it's worth being aware of the issue.


So, overall, excellent idea, but a couple of issues to deal with to ensure things run smoothly.

[westhills2]

Yeah, having time for open showings or open tables wasn't something I considered. Thanks.

One more thing I forgot to mention. What size tables seem to be the standard in the pool halls of America? I have always played on 8ft Brunswick tables and like the feel of the 8ft.

Some people have said that the 9ft is the standard for pool halls, which mean more room for each table. I know that the Pros play tournaments on 9ft tables and they are considered "Regulation size." But I've also read that most pool leagues in the US including the APA and the BCA will sponsor tournaments on any table twice as long as it is wide. What are some thoughts on this? I am close to securing a deal with a distributor and don't want to make a fatal error. Thanks again.

[Big_Bad_Bern]

As a certified Brunswick table installer for the local dealer I just have some advise for you, although the idea is very creative I would advise against it. Brunswick makes alot of very beautiful tables but the finishes on the Gibson and Cosmopolitan plus many other tables considered to be for home use will not hold up as well in a commercial setting. This is not to take anything away from the excellent product that Brunswick produces just stating that 10yrs of home use is vastly different from 10yrs of commercial use. Your Idea can be accomplished in one of two ways, 1) set up Metro's , Goldcrowns , Apollo's , Bristol's , Geneva's , Centurion's , or Medalist's as your play tables and have one or two other tables set up as display only tables if room permits and catalogs provided by Brunswick for the rest. OR 2) set the room up the way you want and plan on replacing the tables every 2-5 yrs depending on the play and abuse they recieve possibly by having a floor model sale, as customers might get scared away from buying a table if it looks worn out or damaged as that might be the mental image they see in their home in their beautiful room setting and you would be responsible for explaining to them that these tables are made for home use and that you have them displayed in a commercial setting to allow people to try one out before purchase.

Just my educated opinion anyway, feel free to ask me any other questions you might have

Bern

[westhills2]

Bern,

Thanks a lot for the advice. I was concerned about the wear and tear of the tables as far as home use vs. commercial use would be. I have owned a Brunswick Bristol manufactured in the early 80's for about 20 yeras, and it has been through VERY rough use, and is still in excellent condition. I have faith in it. The others, like the Gibson, I was not sure about.

I am familiar with the Gold Crown, the Centurion and the Bristol, but not the others. I will have to look into them.



What do you think about the 8ft vs. 9ft issue? I would like to go with the 8ft models, but I don't want to alienate customers who might prefer 9ft tables. But, we are all amatuers, right? I don't think that Mike Siegel is going to walk into my pool hall any time soon.

[WebDude]

I am definately an amateur, but all I play on in the two pool halls I frequent are the 9' tables. One has about 15 8' home tables, but when I go, I go to play on the big tables so I get better. The 8' tables still get used, though.

Doubt this helps, just my $0.02

[westhills2]

Hey, you know, it does help, a lot. Thanks.

I don't know why, but I keep stalling out and being black and white, one or the other on this.

I have been in control of creative decisions on this, my business partner handling most of the legal and business aspects of the deal.

What would work, as WebDude points out great, is a mix. Why not have some 8ft and some 9ft? For some reason, I hadn't considered this. Man, am I dumb.

Great idea. Thanks a lot. Will most likely run with this. Now I just need to figure on the number of each. We live and are going to operate in a small town of about 26,000. It's a college town with nothing but bars so we expect interest. Most likely going to start with 10-20 tables in a large open play room, starting in two rows from the middle and then expand out as things get going.

Going to also have other games such as foosball, table tennis, shuffleboard, etc. Want to cater to as many people as possible. But, this is a POOL HALL first and foremost. NOT a bar or an arcade with pool tables.

Thanks for the help all!

[WebDude]

I forgot to note that the pool hall with 8' and 9' tables (also one huge carom table) has 6 9' tables with 4 3/4" pockets, and one that is double shimmed to 4 1/2" pockets, I believe. I like to warm up on a tighter table, and then compete on one with wider pockets. Perhaps even a snooker table would be a good selling point? I'd love to try my hand at the game someday.

You're more than welcome to stick around for any more discussion. Keep us informed with how the business works out. I know it would be a dream job for many of us, and it will be very interesting to see it grow.

I wish you the best of luck.

[westhills2]

Ok, well, I guess a final decision has been made as to the 8ft. vs. 9ft. tables. My business partner and I made a whirlwind trip to 3 states over the past 2 days, and visited a total of 7 pool halls.

The conclusion?

Almost all had both 8ft tables, 9 ft tables and 7ft bar boxes. Most had more 9ft tables than 8ft and most owners, the ones we were able to speak with said that the 9ft tables are the popular ones, that people like to play on the "regulation tournament" tables, so that kind of settles it. We played at almost every place and got the feel for different tables and lengths. The 9ft tables are a lot of fun to play on, so I think we are gonna run with it.

Now, I know that Brunswick does NOT make the Bristol in a 9ft. Too bad. That leaves either the Mission, Artisan or one of the Competition tables such as the Goldcrown IV or the Centurion. Of course, they are MUCH more expensive.

On the other hand, we have run into the Olhausen Champion Pro 9ft, which is a great black laminate durable table. But, 5k a pop for them.

If anyone has any good ideas about 9ft table models or resources, let me know. Thanks a lot.

[Big_Bad_Bern]

Westhills2 sorry about not getting back to you I had to get alot of work done so that I could go to the Glass City Open tommorow. I believe that 9ft's would be your best choice, although when I looked at opening a poolroom I also looked into separating it into two sections, one with 9ft's for serious players and members and one with either bar tables or 8ft's for the general public. The bar tables are usually less expensive as you can get into a profit sharing with a local vending company or I have found a very good deal on purchasing them if that's your preference, and they are also very durable(read made to be abused by drunks/college kids). As far a 9ft's the Brunswick Metro is about the best bang for the buck table right now, it is the table that they used at the world championships for the last couple of years, Brunswick can't ship enough of these tables to Asia right now they are so indemand. The Metro is a great playing table second only to Goldcrowns( they are also alot less than Goldcrowns) it is a very durable well made comercial table. Your other option ( depending on your projected opening date) is to contact Brunswick and ask about any tournament used tables ( they sometimes sell the tables off after WPBA events at a discounted price).
If you have anyother questions feel free to PM me and I'll also keep an eye on this post. I can also mail or fax you table layouts and space reqiurements if you provide me with a floor plan.

I just love this stuff and if I can help with anything please let me know. :-D

[9BallroadPro]

If you have 6 to 8 top of the line commercial 9' tables pro cut pockets with simonis and TV balls you will attact the better players. You could have a pro event then.

You do want to seperate the ball bangers who will like smaller tables with 5" pockets. Then you can attract the leagues.